Wow, to try and answer everything all at once:
Even Yamaha and Roland *were* sss until the year 2000. The Genos1 and Genos2 are actually SSS capable *if* you limit yourself to the non-voice assigned dsp's legacy and earlier sounds (which mostly defeats the purpose of having a new board). But hes PSR640/740, etc all have SSS (every brand did until 2000, when individual voice DSP's and larger samples arrived).
Yes, Yamaha has current boards with SSS, Modx8, Montage series for example. What does SSS actually mean? pjd can give a much fuller explanation, but in a nutshell, it means your keyboard is saving half of its resources (DSPs and polyphony channels) to hold previous states while engaging new ones. Btw, Yamaha isn't the only one who no longer has it; Ketron has a couple of $10k keyboards (Event is $8k in Canada, SD60k is $11k, Genos2 and PA5x are both $7k). The Ketrons don't have SSS either; just like Yamaha only implemented SSS on their workstations but not their arrangers.
BogdanH; it's not a distortion, since it happens in real life; It's condensation flying slowly out of the bell when a sax player plays pianissimo (which I've heard in person); when they blow hard, it's not noticeable at all, just very audible when playing softly.
Classical:
I'd actually give the edge to PA5x for classical nylon guitars. It sounds more articulate to me.
Steel string:
Yamaha by far *except* not being able to play the megavoice throws a lot of people. Korg now has S.Art called DNC, and in some cases it works
more naturally than Yamaha e.g. guitars in some cases it's actually really poorly implemented vs Yamaha e.g. S.Art 2 saxophones
Electric (clean & mild grit)
At low reverb, *very close*, but I'd give the edge to Korg, sounds more like a tube amp (but only very slightly)... until you need one washed in reverb; the G2 reverb is spectacular - again, listen to the 2 midis i posted on page 2. So electric clean in a reverb tank, G2 has the edge.
Electric Distortion:
This one shocked me, because previously, Korg had the *much* harder rocking power chord electric distortion guitars for decades; PA80 electric guitars *much* better than PSR2000/2100, even PSR9000! (which cost 60% more at the time!). Right up to the PA3x/PA900, Korg had the better power chord and leads; PA4x it basically became a tie.
Pa5x electric lead, at least out of the box, just doesn't go as hard: there's no modern distortion, no high gain leads like you'd hear on JRock for example. I can't find any built in styles that use as hard a distortion guitar as before. However, this doesn't appear to be a matter of capability, but a design choice; I feel like they intentional toned down the amount of distortion on all the styles and voices to make it more 'realistic'... but now I don't have any ridiculous "Jackson Sustaniac through a Yamaha Line 6 amp".
I was playing the Top Gun theme demo on G2, once in front of the Roland rep and once in front of the Korg rep. Both times, they were actually gobsmacked "wow, that's a great guitar patch!"
I posted the same midi earlier in this thread, rendered from Pa5x and from Genos2 on page 2.
*You be the judge.*
But I can tell you 100% of the customers that heard the 3 (G1, G2, PA5x) side-by-side in person agreed:
-Genos 2 sounds more real. By a lot. Pa5x & Genos 1 sound "canned" (like midi) by comparison. That's for anything *orchestral* or with big band brass, or woodwinds; if I use an 80s hair rock song though, it flips to the PA5x sounding superior!
-Pa5x has deeper bass and drums. Doesn't matter if the G2 drums sound more real, the extra punch, you can really feel.
-PA5x has better build quality. By a lot. Genos 1 and 2 look toyish
-PA5x depsite being 2 years older, still has the best pianos (G2 is equal, but surprisingly not better, although that felt piano is *nice*)
-G2 launching with 911 styles vs PA5x launching with 400, means that Yamaha owners going to Korg will find a lot that's different and new. Korg owners going to PA5x, all of my customers have been extremely underwhelmed by how little is new. *To be fair*: A lot of G1 owners going to G2 thought the same (even though G1 only launched with 540 styles!), until they heard how much more real the G2 sounds in person
-Korg vocal harmony just works easier out of the box. Yamaha, like with their SSS, makes you jump through hoops to get it to work (yes, if you listen to my youtube demos, I've programmed my own SSS on Yamaha... I always have, because that 'pop' is just too annoying for me, too. But you have to jump through *hoops* and/or handicap the keyboard to half of its potential; which is how SSS works on the Modx/Montage, Roland Fantoms after 2007, and yes the Korg Pa's.
And they *all* wished the G2 had the PA5x's deeper bass, and *most* (not all) wished the G2 also SSS.
Look, if SSS without any extra programming on your part is a deal breaker for you, then yes, get a Korg (even the $11k Ketron doesn't have it!). If not having registrations is a deal-breaker for you, then get a Yamaha. Or get a really old floppy drive Yamaha and you'll have both :p
Mark
Even Yamaha and Roland *were* sss until the year 2000. The Genos1 and Genos2 are actually SSS capable *if* you limit yourself to the non-voice assigned dsp's legacy and earlier sounds (which mostly defeats the purpose of having a new board). But hes PSR640/740, etc all have SSS (every brand did until 2000, when individual voice DSP's and larger samples arrived).
Yes, Yamaha has current boards with SSS, Modx8, Montage series for example. What does SSS actually mean? pjd can give a much fuller explanation, but in a nutshell, it means your keyboard is saving half of its resources (DSPs and polyphony channels) to hold previous states while engaging new ones. Btw, Yamaha isn't the only one who no longer has it; Ketron has a couple of $10k keyboards (Event is $8k in Canada, SD60k is $11k, Genos2 and PA5x are both $7k). The Ketrons don't have SSS either; just like Yamaha only implemented SSS on their workstations but not their arrangers.
BogdanH; it's not a distortion, since it happens in real life; It's condensation flying slowly out of the bell when a sax player plays pianissimo (which I've heard in person); when they blow hard, it's not noticeable at all, just very audible when playing softly.
Guitars:Sorry if I go a little bit of toppic, but how does the acoustic and electric guitar sounds on the Pa5X when comparing to the Genos? I owned a Genos 1 before and was quite happy with the guitars on the Genos. I now thinking to either wait for the SX-920 or getting a second hand Pa5X, but since I play mostly 80's rock music covers, good guitar sounds are super important to me. Also, does the Pa5X have a built-in USB audio interface?SSS is worth $1,000 alone so any $6,000 board without it is just silly. Do the other Yamaha arrangers have SSS? If you consider what SSS actually does, it is capable of having (2) systems running long enough in unison not to kill the current system when switching. That's a professional level instrument when it comes to a digital instrument as it's understandable on an analog instrument.
Thanks
/Jugge
Classical:
I'd actually give the edge to PA5x for classical nylon guitars. It sounds more articulate to me.
Steel string:
Yamaha by far *except* not being able to play the megavoice throws a lot of people. Korg now has S.Art called DNC, and in some cases it works
more naturally than Yamaha e.g. guitars in some cases it's actually really poorly implemented vs Yamaha e.g. S.Art 2 saxophones
Electric (clean & mild grit)
At low reverb, *very close*, but I'd give the edge to Korg, sounds more like a tube amp (but only very slightly)... until you need one washed in reverb; the G2 reverb is spectacular - again, listen to the 2 midis i posted on page 2. So electric clean in a reverb tank, G2 has the edge.
Electric Distortion:
This one shocked me, because previously, Korg had the *much* harder rocking power chord electric distortion guitars for decades; PA80 electric guitars *much* better than PSR2000/2100, even PSR9000! (which cost 60% more at the time!). Right up to the PA3x/PA900, Korg had the better power chord and leads; PA4x it basically became a tie.
Pa5x electric lead, at least out of the box, just doesn't go as hard: there's no modern distortion, no high gain leads like you'd hear on JRock for example. I can't find any built in styles that use as hard a distortion guitar as before. However, this doesn't appear to be a matter of capability, but a design choice; I feel like they intentional toned down the amount of distortion on all the styles and voices to make it more 'realistic'... but now I don't have any ridiculous "Jackson Sustaniac through a Yamaha Line 6 amp".
I was playing the Top Gun theme demo on G2, once in front of the Roland rep and once in front of the Korg rep. Both times, they were actually gobsmacked "wow, that's a great guitar patch!"
I posted the same midi earlier in this thread, rendered from Pa5x and from Genos2 on page 2.
*You be the judge.*
But I can tell you 100% of the customers that heard the 3 (G1, G2, PA5x) side-by-side in person agreed:
-Genos 2 sounds more real. By a lot. Pa5x & Genos 1 sound "canned" (like midi) by comparison. That's for anything *orchestral* or with big band brass, or woodwinds; if I use an 80s hair rock song though, it flips to the PA5x sounding superior!
-Pa5x has deeper bass and drums. Doesn't matter if the G2 drums sound more real, the extra punch, you can really feel.
-PA5x has better build quality. By a lot. Genos 1 and 2 look toyish
-PA5x depsite being 2 years older, still has the best pianos (G2 is equal, but surprisingly not better, although that felt piano is *nice*)
-G2 launching with 911 styles vs PA5x launching with 400, means that Yamaha owners going to Korg will find a lot that's different and new. Korg owners going to PA5x, all of my customers have been extremely underwhelmed by how little is new. *To be fair*: A lot of G1 owners going to G2 thought the same (even though G1 only launched with 540 styles!), until they heard how much more real the G2 sounds in person
-Korg vocal harmony just works easier out of the box. Yamaha, like with their SSS, makes you jump through hoops to get it to work (yes, if you listen to my youtube demos, I've programmed my own SSS on Yamaha... I always have, because that 'pop' is just too annoying for me, too. But you have to jump through *hoops* and/or handicap the keyboard to half of its potential; which is how SSS works on the Modx/Montage, Roland Fantoms after 2007, and yes the Korg Pa's.
And they *all* wished the G2 had the PA5x's deeper bass, and *most* (not all) wished the G2 also SSS.
Look, if SSS without any extra programming on your part is a deal breaker for you, then yes, get a Korg (even the $11k Ketron doesn't have it!). If not having registrations is a deal-breaker for you, then get a Yamaha. Or get a really old floppy drive Yamaha and you'll have both :p
Mark
Statistics: Posted by amwilburn — Fri Aug 23, 2024 8:06 pm